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  Post new topic   Reply to topic The United Peafowl Association - www.peafowl.org Forum Index » Incubation, Hatching, and Peachick care Goto page 1, 2  Next    
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lhROW
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:31 pm Reply with quote

New chick having a bad day Sad

rough day

Poor little guy's toes are curled, and on one foot, are twisted too.

toe troubles

I guess I'm going to try splinting in the morning -- he needs to be a little stronger before I do anything that stressful to him.

Curled toes

Hatching was weird. Had to rescue the chick eventually, but not sure if it will turn out okay or not -- poor little guy. The other new chick is totally attached to it -- kept laying next to the egg while he was stuck in there, and lies next to him while he tries to get onto his curly feet. She'll be a very lonely-only if he doesn't make it Crying or Very sad

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D C T
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:58 pm Reply with quote

My memory is foggy tonight because I have a summer cold or the flu dragging me
down Mr. Green
so I can NOT remember if I have steered you to my article
www.peafowl.org/ARTICLES/1/
-----------
I have 17 year old peahen in living room with me suffering from "female problems"
and she seems about dead.
-----------
Pineland has been updating its email service tonight and am not quite certain if
my email is working now computer
But the browser is working or I would not be making this post
----------
I hope that you can repair your peachick

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D C T
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:08 pm Reply with quote

One more thing.......
since my long long ago orthopedics I learned to treat "twisted tibia" which used
to frustrate me. But the first recipient of this gift is now at least ten years old.
But this year I have been passing information ot treating this to people that
visit my website or find my email address at Back Yard Chickens forum or
other forums.

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lhROW
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:01 am Reply with quote

Well I got worried last night that the toes would harden up and not uncurl well if I waited until morning. So baby got shoes...

First shoes, Splints for curled toes

It seemed like it helped, but by this morning, one shoe was gone completely, and one was dangling from a strip of tape. Confused

I sat with the chick and stretched the toes by hand for awhile -- seemed like that really helped the chick be able to straighten the toes. And they were easier to straighten than yesterday. But I can't sit with a chick in my lap 24/7 holding toes in position! So baby got NEW shoes:

Second shoes, Splints for curled toes

This second set, made of pipe cleaners (there's a newer name for those things?) seems to be working much better than the first set, which was made from stiff paper. It's easier to tape to the wire and to adjust it to where it needs to be. And I think the cushioning is a good idea.

Progress... but slow. On the good side, the chick is gaining strength, so I am optimistic he will get through this and be able to walk normally. He's able to stand now, so that's a step in the right direction.

That's first aid tape, by the way -- the flexible, breathable clear stuff that's used for bandaging. It comes off pretty well and doesn't take skin with it. Didn't know what to use, and was digging through the first aid kit... seems to work pretty well for this.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:37 am Reply with quote

BEAUTIFUL WORK Exclamation Cool
The "pipe cleaners" are sold in Wal-Mart handicraft dept as Chenille stems
(for flowers maybe)
Back when I was testing treatments and timing things I could get shoes on a
peachick in five minutes. Eight hours of treatment would often be long enough
to cure curled toes completely but stubborn case could take longer.
------
After those toes are straight there just might be other problems but perhaps
not.
------
At sunrise Saturday morning that old peahen and I were both still alive :wow
so I carried her back out to her pen. But she is still very ill and I have VERY
tired blood (from fighting the flu bug?) Mr. Green Confused

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lhROW
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:16 pm Reply with quote

Wow, the splints worked really well! Very Happy Look:

After splints

The center right toe still turns off to one side a bit sometimes:

One toe still turned a bit

Other times it seems okay:

One more after splint photo

I'm trying to decide if I need to splint that right foot again. I pulled the splints off yesterday evening, earlier than I had intended, because the chick was starting to go spraddle-legged. It couldn't get good footing with the splints on, and the legs were starting to splay apart. Taking the splints off stopped that from progressing any farther, and the curled toe chick is walking fairly well today.

I think the other chick is quite happy :chickendance that the curled toe chick can walk now. It was pretty obviously worried about it, even before it got out of the shell... Who knew chicks could worry?

Two chicks together

(The curled toe chick is to the left of the photograph, and the first hatched chick is to the right, looking back at it.)

I'm so grateful for this forum -- if it weren't for the UPA, that chick on the left and two of my three chicks from last year wouldn't have made it. Thanks so much!!! run

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:57 pm Reply with quote

I suspect that the peachick will be OK without more treatment with "shoes".
But some years back I videotaped a peachick wearing shoes AND a hobble brace.
---------
My very sick peahen is still beside me in living room. This morning I was still not
feeling well so did not go to Church. And later a friend checking on me pointed
out that my 31 year old car has a flat tire Shocked
---------
I think that my old peahen needs fresh air. The temperature in living room is
eightynine and six tenths degrees paperbag
So I will take her to her pen which may be cooler

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burdgurl
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:02 pm Reply with quote

Great job and photos, thanks for sharing !!
Looks like it will be just fine now thanks to you .
A little fresh air and sunshine of course always helps too, that is when it's warm enough for them to be out in it .
If nothing else you can place them near a sunny window indoors as long as they don't get to hot in any direct sunlight.
DCT, I hope you and your peahen are feeling much better soon !
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burdgurl
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:36 pm Reply with quote

IhROW,
I still am in awe of the job you did and am still studying over your photos carefully, you have provided an awesome detailed " how to" procedure , as well as DCT has always provided also.
Would like anyones input here per a chick I have with crooked toes .
The chick is now 3 days old and his inside toes on both feet are turning at almost 45 degree angles out. IE: away from the other toes and turning in the middle joint of each toe, if you will.
I have tried the pipe cleaners to no avail, ( having a very hard time working with those fragile small toes ) and then just straigthening them out the best I could and sticking the bottom of the toes to the tape then taping over the whole toe, they are a bit better but still very crooked.
Looks to me if I could pull these inside toes over to and tape to the middle toes that perhaps that would help to straighten them up.
However, would the chick be able to keep it's balance/walk correctly with those toes taped to the middle ones?
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D C T
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:33 am Reply with quote

The idea of taping those toes together IS the right idea. Cool
That is if I understood you correctly Cool Confused
Life has been rough here at dysfuntion junction. Besides NOT feeling well
I have been digging graves for poultry Mr. Green gaah

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lhROW
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:29 pm Reply with quote

Hi burdgurl --

All the credit should go to DCT and to Louden Farms -- they are the ones that told me how to do it.

Can you post a photo of your chick's toes? I took those pictures with my cell phone, transferred them to the computer using the memory card, then uploaded them to the UPA photobucket account. Then I cut and pasted the photo link from the photobucket account into the posts here on the forum.

From your description, it sounds like your chick's toes are doing what my chick's right toes were doing, more or less. You may be able to see in the photo that the middle toe is crossing the others -- it was as if that foot was folded sharply in half and twisted as well.

Here's some more details about what I did that might help.

First, I couldn't get the paper/cardboard shoe thing to work very well for me. I used 3x5 cardstock, which was what I had at hand. The Loudens suggested using something the same weight as soda can carton packaging which is a little stronger, but not very thick. The ones I made did help the chick's feet, but I didn't do a very good job of cutting the shoes in the right shape, and the cardstock was not thick enough. The paper shoe thing could work, I just didn't have the shoe cutting skills and right supplies to make it work well.

I think also that sometimes, it may take a couple rounds of efforts, depending on how badly curled the toes are, and how tight the tendons are. It seems like (someone correct me if I am wrong, please) the chick is a bit more bendy when it first hatches, and it seems like its bones get harder or more rigid in the first days out of the shell????

If the first splinting gets the tendons partially stretched, then the next splinting can stretch them farther...

I looked at DCT's drawings of the pipe cleaner splint -- it was basically a W -- but when I tried it, the pipe cleaner didn't seem to stay in the shape very well, so I fiddled with the pipe cleaner for awhile until I got it to work.

Instead of just making a W and mashing the middle V of the W together, I changed how I bent the pipe cleaner. I made 3 V's -- it's hard to describe in words -- imagine making a W but with one more v... like this: VVV -- but I didn't cut off the tail of the pipe cleaner.

Then I mashed each V to a straight line to be one of the three front toes, and I wrapped the tail of the pipe cleaner through the notches to pull them together and tighten it up. I made another little doubled place at the bottom for the rear toe. I had the chick in my lap while I was twisting up the pipe cleaner so I could make the toes more or less the correct length.

When I was done, the shoes looked like this:

Chick Shoes, Chenille stems bent into foot splints to fix curled pea toes

Getting the shoes on the chick's feet was challenging, as the chick really was not in favor of the idea. giggle

I used clear first aid tape, which is breathable and sticky, but which can be removed without tearing skin. I had to precut little strips of tape so that I could just grab a precut strip while holding the chick with the other hand. I fiddled around with different sizes to see what worked. I ended up precutting several different sizes -- and still had to stop taping feet to cut more!

Before I taped the splints on, I worked with the chick's toes without the splint, just gently stretching them with my fingers, which apparently helped stretch the tendons, and made it easier to get the shoes on. I tried test-fitting the shoe to see if the toes would stretch onto the splint toes, and just gently fiddled with the chick's toes to get them to straighten with my hands.

When I was ready to tape -- and by the way, this is really a two person job, I just only had one human available -- I worked at getting one toe taped to one arm of the splint in more or less the right place. That sort of helped the splint and the foot stay together while I worked. I started with whichever toe seemed like it could most easily be lined up with the splint and taped in place. I didn't get perfection with that first strip of tape, just got things sort of where they could be worked on.

Then I taped another toe -- whichever one I could reach easiest and seemed like it would go into place, and I used more strips of tape on that one to get it as "just right" as I could. Same with the next one. Somewhere along in there, I went back and retaped the first one in as good a position as I could get it, and added more tape to make it more secure. The farther along with the taping I got, the more secure the whole thing was.

I tried to strike a balance between getting the tape and splint on securely, but not putting the tape on so tightly that it would impair circulation or block the blood flow to the toes in any way. I think the chenille/fuzz on the pipe cleaners helped with cushioning, and may also help so that the taping doesn't cut off the circulation, but I was pretty conscious that I needed to not tape too tightly. I also tried not to leave tape where it would stick to things or to feathers -- it's just a tangly, aggravating exercise altogether Rolling Eyes

DCT wrote about being able to tape splints to feet in 5 minutes with experience... I am totally impressed, because while I don't know how long it took me, I can say that a good deal of patience is involved, and while time does "expand" to seem like you've been doing something a really long time when it's this fussy and fiddly, I am certain it was considerable over 5 minutes for this first attempt of mine Laughing

I took the splints off earlier than I had intended, as the chick had a hard time getting good footing with the splints, and its legs were starting to splay from slipping Sad

But shortly after the splints went on (especially the fuzzy shoes), it was able to get its feet under itself, and begin standing. So the splints were a huge help.

By the way, the toes did continue to straighten after the splints came off, and the toes seem perfectly straight now!!! wahoo

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:30 pm Reply with quote

Confused WOW....those are some fancy "shoes" I do not think that I ever made any
with a back toe. Confused ........just the three forward pointing ones.
But I did make some "half shoes" when struggling with the problem of a kink
on the outer toe. Some years back I had a large number of peachicks with that
hard to treat problem. I learned to treat it with a half shoe taped on very
firmly for a whole week. Normal crooked toes can be repaired in just
eight hours Exclamation
But I have not even seen any kinked outer toes in recent years.
Right now my only two peachicks had NO orthopedic problems

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lhROW
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:21 pm Reply with quote

Thanks DCT -- I wouldn't have had a clue what to do if it weren't this forum and for all the stuff you wrote and the illustrations you put up, and the phone advice from the Loudons...

I didn't know what to do about the chick's back toes, and since the back toes also seemed messed up, I just went ahead and made a little support for those as well. I don't know if it was really necessary, and since these are the first toes I've had to straighten, I have absolutely no idea if I got a "better" outcome with or without the back toe part of the "fancy footwear." I'm just really grateful for the advice, and glad that it worked.

I like your idea of the half-shoes. As quickly as this chick was starting to splay, it seems to me that less shoe/more foot contact on the ground might be healthier... I surely did not want to go from curled toes to splayed legs or slipped tendons, or out of the frying pan into the fire. Wouldn't have worked initially on this chick, because all the toes were curled and some were also twisted, but if I had put shoes back on that one foot, I was going to try a half-shoe. But you were right, it didn't need more treatment.

It sounds as though things may not have been going well with your elderly hen -- so sorry. Crying or Very sad

Glad you have a couple healthy chicks! The two I managed to hatch here were success stories from the new incubator. The old aggrabator managed to do in all the pea eggs that I put in it this year -- despite fertile, developing eggs, and careful management. I was able to get chicken chicks and guinea keets to survive in the old one, but they are smaller and farther from the heating element. I think the heating element in the stinkubator was just too close to the big ole pea eggs and overheated/unevenly heated them a bit too much. Sigh. So I'm feeling really fortunate I was able to get any peas this year myself...

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burdgurl
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:51 am Reply with quote

DCT,

So very sorry to hear about your recent bird losses, heat related perhaps?
IhROW, thank you so very much for the even further more detailed info. It's wonderful of you and DCT to share your knowledge & expertise on this matter...am sure a lot of people will find it all very helpful , know I do !
I don't have any pics. of my bird's toes for they are now taped up, once again.
I misstated they were crooked to a 45 degree angle, actually they are crooked out at a 90 degree angle ( again the crook starts in the middle joint of the toe ) so I just straightened the toes out , pulled them over to the middle toe on each foot and taped them to those .
( essentially they look like they now only have two front toes )
All seems to be going well as far as the chick being able to walk / keep it's balance.
Will leave the tape on prob. for 48 hours this go around vs. the 24 hours I tried before with the other tape to tape and the pipe cleaner application .
Was worried about taping the inner toe all the way to the middle in that maybe their inner toe was like our big toe being important for people keeping their balance but all seems well.
Thanks again to both DCT and IhROW !
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:31 pm Reply with quote

WOW. Thank you, everyone for your posts and especially to lhROW for the top-notch photography. This is amazing. DCT began this "shoe therapy" years ago and the concept continues to evolve and be improved. Each of you is amazing! Thank you for this education.

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